Kevin Stallard(deleted)
10/22/2009 9:48 AM
post40493
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Hi All,
I would like to get Momentics running on a Macintosh. It certainly won't happen quickly, but I'd at least like to take
a stab at it and try to account for what would need to be done.
Would there exist a list of things that would have to be ported (in binary form) to OSX for this to work? If not, can
someone help me put that together? I don't really have an in-depth knowledge of what goes into the IDE for a full up
momentics installation. Nor do I have a great knowledge of the Eclipse framework, but I do think that a mac OSX
version of this would be fantastic....
Thanks
Kevin
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Andy Jin(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Andy Jin(deleted)
10/22/2009 10:21 AM
post40494
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
If you want to just port the IDE to MacOSX it's possible. I will miss some steps for sure but below can be your startup:
1) Eclipse platform already has a port on MacOSX which you can download from this link http://download.eclipse.org/
eclipse/downloads/drops/R-3.5.1-200909170800/index.php
2) Assuming you have that working well, you can update your eclipse platform with our IDE update site https://www.qnx.
com/account/updates/foundry27/ide/4.7/
3) This should bring you all the QNX features and bundles. You still don't have the full Momentics as you may miss
several branding settings. You will have to modify your Eclipse configuration to adhere to the Momentics settings.
4) After that you have to port the QNX tool chain to MacOSX. It includes (but is not limited to) the compilers, debugger
and binutils. This is the most important portion of the porting works because without the QNX tool chain, you are only
running Eclipse platform.
I suggest you join the "Core Development Tools" project http://community.qnx.com/sf/projects/toolchain. You have access
to the source of our tool chain from that project.
5) There are several native code within the IDE which need to be ported. One of them is the licensing enforcement. You
can't port this by yourself because the code is not public for obvious reason.
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
10/22/2009 10:45 AM
post40496
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
> 5) There are several native code within the IDE which need to be ported. One
> of them is the licensing enforcement. You can't port this by yourself because
> the code is not public for obvious reason.
Will functionality be restricted if we can get the licensing stuff working?
Thanks
Kevin
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
10/22/2009 10:46 AM
post40497
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
can't get...can't get the licensing working:?
> > 5) There are several native code within the IDE which need to be ported. One
>
> > of them is the licensing enforcement. You can't port this by yourself
> because
> > the code is not public for obvious reason.
>
> Will functionality be restricted if we can get the licensing stuff working?
>
> Thanks
> Kevin
>
>
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Adam Mallory
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Adam Mallory
10/22/2009 10:52 AM
post40498
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
I've done this since 6.4.0 for my own machines. I've ported most of the nessesities to make an OSX SDK (toolchain,
utils, IDE etc) and use it daily (as do a growing number of other developers here at QNX). I've successfully build
procnto, startup and our multimedia stack with it and haven't hit any issues with compatibility. So it is do-able.
That said, it's not straight forward and requires tweaking or recursive makefiles to work with Apples gcc/linker and
lots of massaging for some host tools. Also as Andy mentioned the license enforcement will be an issue for both the IDE
as well as some of the host tools so it might be a non-starter for you.
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Andy Jin(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Andy Jin(deleted)
10/22/2009 10:58 AM
post40499
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Adam, did you port the licensing library too?
Kevin, without the license code ported, you won't be able to use several QNX tools, e.g. System Profile.
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Adam Mallory
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Adam Mallory
10/22/2009 9:12 PM
post40575
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
I did try but I could never get the jni/license gear to talk to the Motif app properly (I did get it building). Even
then I'm not convinced a proper license key could ever be made since the product doesn't exist. So it's been disabled
across the board since effort there wasn't going to help me scratch my itch to do native hosted development.
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
10/22/2009 11:01 AM
post40500
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
It would be great if some of those tweaks could be made available to at least us QNX licensees.
Any chance of turning it into a project here on Foundry?
Thanks
Kevin
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Colin Burgess(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Colin Burgess(deleted)
10/22/2009 11:13 AM
post40502
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Damn you're a masochist, Adam :-)
Adam Mallory wrote:
> I've done this since 6.4.0 for my own machines. I've ported most of the nessesities to make an OSX SDK (toolchain,
utils, IDE etc) and use it daily (as do a growing number of other developers here at QNX). I've successfully build
procnto, startup and our multimedia stack with it and haven't hit any issues with compatibility. So it is do-able.
>
> That said, it's not straight forward and requires tweaking or recursive makefiles to work with Apples gcc/linker and
lots of massaging for some host tools. Also as Andy mentioned the license enforcement will be an issue for both the IDE
as well as some of the host tools so it might be a non-starter for you.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> General
> http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post40498
>
--
cburgess@qnx.com
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Adam Mallory
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Adam Mallory
10/22/2009 9:15 PM
post40576
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
> Damn you're a masochist, Adam :-)
What's the safeword here? Purple Turtle! Purple Turtle! :)
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Christian Damus(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Christian Damus(deleted)
10/22/2009 4:39 PM
post40535
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Hi, Kevin,
Certainly, there would be some effort in getting the SDP command-line tools
ported to OS X: all the various cross-compiler toolchains in the QCC.
The Eclipse CDT component of the IDE already runs well on OS X (some hiccups
with 64-bit Mach-O format, but that's not an issue in this context) and
there isn't much else of native code in the IDE. By and large, it should
"just work." There's an embedded TFTP server that would have to be ported
if you need that ...
The major obstacle, I suppose, is the licensing infrastructure: that would
have to be provided to you by QNX for the OS X platform. I don't expect
that it is something that would be made available in source form :-)
Why not just run the SDP in a Linux instance on VMWare Fusion? Its quite
smooth.
Cheers,
Christian
On Thu, 2009-10-22 at 09:48 -0400, Kevin Stallard wrote:
Hi All,
I would like to get Momentics running on a Macintosh. It certainly won't
happen quickly, but I'd at least like to take a stab at it and try to
account for what would need to be done.
Would there exist a list of things that would have to be ported (in binary
form) to OSX for this to work? If not, can someone help me put that
together? I don't really have an in-depth knowledge of what goes into the
IDE for a full up momentics installation. Nor do I have a great knowledge
of the Eclipse framework, but I do think that a mac OSX version of this
would be fantastic....
Thanks
Kevin
_______________________________________________
General
http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post40493
<http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post40493>
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Adam Mallory
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Adam Mallory
10/22/2009 9:21 PM
post40577
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
> Why not just run the SDP in a Linux instance on VMWare Fusion? Its quite
> smooth.
For me it was about battery life, speed of the build. Another big one was the ability to look at kernel trace files in
a 'native' IDE as I found it much more responsive that via VMware (imho). Plus if you're already running one VM for
testing a target setup another VM just for builds/IDE means lots of memory. Of course the need to license VMware was
also something I didn't want to do either.
That said, re-rolling your own tool chain each new version gets pretty old ;)
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
10/28/2009 10:51 AM
post40902
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
>
> That said, re-rolling your own tool chain each new version gets pretty old ;)
>
Good point.... it's fun at first, but then becomes a bit of an annoyance...what to do...what to do....
Thanks for all the feed back on this.
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
10/28/2009 10:53 AM
post40904
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
> Why not just run the SDP in a Linux instance on VMWare Fusion? Its quite
> smooth.
I already do, but I'm using WindowsXP in Parallels instead of Linux....it works and sufficiently well, but it can be
cumbersome at times. It would be nice to have a native OSX version up and going....
Thanks
Kevin
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Mario Charest
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RE: OSX Version of Momentics
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Mario Charest
10/28/2009 10:55 AM
post40906
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RE: OSX Version of Momentics
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Stallard [mailto:community-noreply@qnx.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 10:54 AM
> To: general-ide
> Subject: Re: OSX Version of Momentics
>
> > Why not just run the SDP in a Linux instance on VMWare Fusion? Its
> quite
> > smooth.
>
> I already do, but I'm using WindowsXP in Parallels instead of
> Linux....it works and sufficiently well, but it can be cumbersome at
> times. It would be nice to have a native OSX version up and going....
Would be nicer to have self hosted ....
>
> Thanks
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> General
> http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post40904
>
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Michael Kolesov
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Michael Kolesov
11/09/2009 5:38 AM
post41590
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Hello!
I am interesting in Mac Host too. I have planed to build toolchain for OSX, but now I see that it exists..for internal
and not official usage. And it seems there are no important parts of QNX staff in public like qcc, qnxlic, may be
something else..so my aim will not so full in respect to other hosts.
Could you guys share binary version of Mac OS X Host for test purposes?
Or may be you could post binary form of not published utilities and source for the other?
..I think that any form will be interesting for people who have Mac OS X as Host Platform and QNX as Target.
PS. Of cause, it is "as is" and without any warranty on this stage.
Regards,
Mike Kolesov
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Michael Kolesov
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Michael Kolesov
11/09/2009 6:01 AM
post41591
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
So if you have some work about Mac OS X Host and there are some people here (and in QSS) who like to use Mac for QNX
works.. And people here wants to do there on toolchain, IDE..
May be it could nice idea to collaborate on that in one new project on Foundary27 ?
PS. I am agree with Adam that the "own" toolchain is not the best way in these days..but the common..is.
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
11/09/2009 7:29 AM
post41594
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
To add more fuel to the fire here, one of my client's employees are moving to Macintosh computers for development (they
are very jealous of my setup).
Their eyes grew wide when I told them QNX was doing OSX stuff internally...
Cat is out of the bag guys....it's now only a matter of time...resistance is futile
;)
Kevin
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Adam Mallory
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Adam Mallory
11/09/2009 9:06 AM
post41601
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Don't mistake my own efforts as a 'QNX was doing OSX stuff internally'. The
entire project was to scratch my own itch so it has little to no standing in
QNX itself.
I'd have no problem sharing my builds - licensing and legal are the only
issues (I know of) that stand in the way (aside from the fact very few
developers have OSX, so support is going to be impossible)
-Adam
On 09/11/09 7:29 AM, "Kevin Stallard" <community-noreply@qnx.com> wrote:
> To add more fuel to the fire here, one of my client's employees are moving to
> Macintosh computers for development (they are very jealous of my setup).
>
> Their eyes grew wide when I told them QNX was doing OSX stuff internally...
>
> Cat is out of the bag guys....it's now only a matter of time...resistance is
> futile
>
> ;)
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> General
> http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post41594
>
--
Adam Mallory (amallory@qnx.com)
Manager, Support Services Phone: +1.613.614.6612
QNX Software Systems Fax: +1.613.591.3579
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
11/10/2009 11:45 AM
post41728
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
> Don't mistake my own efforts as a 'QNX was doing OSX stuff internally'. The
> entire project was to scratch my own itch so it has little to no standing in
> QNX itself.
Rumors are a terrible thing! Like I said, it's out of the bag....good luck getting it back in ;)
>(aside from the fact very few developers have OSX, so support is going to >be impossible)
Well, I won't argue with that one as I have no way of knowing, but of course we that have moved to a Mac think that more
are using it than we think.
Okay....I had to try!
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Adam Mallory
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Adam Mallory
11/10/2009 1:41 PM
post41733
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Hi Kevin,
On 10/11/09 11:45 AM, "Kevin Stallard" <community-noreply@qnx.com> wrote:
> Rumors are a terrible thing! Like I said, it's out of the bag....good luck
> getting it back in ;)
Not trying to stuff the cat back into the bag, just clarifying that my work
isn't any kind of project here at QNX. Just me scratching an itch for my
own workflow.
> Well, I won't argue with that one as I have no way of knowing, but of course
> we that have moved to a Mac think that more are using it than we think.
>
> Okay....I had to try!
It is pretty nice - that I cannot deny.
--
Adam Mallory (amallory@qnx.com)
Manager, Support Services Phone: +1.613.614.6612
QNX Software Systems Fax: +1.613.591.3579
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Michael Kolesov
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Michael Kolesov
11/09/2009 9:56 AM
post41609
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
> Cat is out of the bag guys....it's now only a matter of time...resistance is
> futile
:-))
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Michael Kolesov
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Michael Kolesov
11/11/2009 2:47 AM
post41746
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Here I would like to explain, why this topic is interesting.
My own opinion: Development for UNIX Target (i.e. QNX) is mostly comfortable under UNIX Host (i.e. Linux, other).
Windows Host has commercial GUI which give the power of Graphics apps like IDE. Under Windows Host IDE looks nicer and
works faster than under Linux. Support of world standard MS Office applications and other Windows thing... But it has no
native UNIX environment. All of these Cygwin, MinGW...is very far from real UNIX (with respect to authors of that
applications).
From another hand, Linux has the great and modern UNIX environment with all that features.. But it has no commercial
level GUI. Yes Linux GUI presents, works but it is so poor in comparing with Win or Mac. In other words, I don't want to
spend my weekends to setup KDE 4 features like internalization as example..So if you have tried that, you understand me
..I hope :). OpenOffice compatibility is a big question too.
I don't consider Neutrino. Try to create presentation under that OS and you will understand why it is not in the list.
Every system should take its place..
So, after many years of preparing my own work station place I see that OS X is very interesting candidate. At short.
Native UNIX, commercial GUI, Microsoft Office for Mac, GCC as base compiler. It's simple to setup. As you see OS X is
real mix of moderns technologies from both worlds, Windows and UNIX. Only QNX has not support of OSX..yet :). Of cause
it is expensive, but all we know that quality system will never be cheap. By the way, Linux solutions are very chip
only on initial stage of project ;). So, every thing has its own (not zero) price..
PS. Please don't consider this post as Mac advertisement. It is just my own analysis of instrumental systems. Nobody
from Apple gives me the money :).. yet :-))
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
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RE: OSX Version of Momentics
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Kevin Stallard(deleted)
11/11/2009 2:10 PM
post41791
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RE: OSX Version of Momentics
A man who doesn't even speak my language natively but can better articulate
my thoughts on the subject better than I can.
Thank you Michael, my thoughts exactly.
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Kolesov [mailto:community-noreply@qnx.com]
Sent: November 11, 2009 00:47
To: general-ide
Subject: Re: OSX Version of Momentics
Here I would like to explain, why this topic is interesting.
My own opinion: Development for UNIX Target (i.e. QNX) is mostly
comfortable under UNIX Host (i.e. Linux, other).
Windows Host has commercial GUI which give the power of Graphics apps like
IDE. Under Windows Host IDE looks nicer and works faster than under Linux.
Support of world standard MS Office applications and other Windows thing...
But it has no native UNIX environment. All of these Cygwin, MinGW...is very
far from real UNIX (with respect to authors of that applications).
From another hand, Linux has the great and modern UNIX environment with all
that features.. But it has no commercial level GUI. Yes Linux GUI presents,
works but it is so poor in comparing with Win or Mac. In other words, I
don't want to spend my weekends to setup KDE 4 features like internalization
as example..So if you have tried that, you understand me ..I hope :).
OpenOffice compatibility is a big question too.
I don't consider Neutrino. Try to create presentation under that OS and you
will understand why it is not in the list. Every system should take its
place..
So, after many years of preparing my own work station place I see that OS X
is very interesting candidate. At short. Native UNIX, commercial GUI,
Microsoft Office for Mac, GCC as base compiler. It's simple to setup. As you
see OS X is real mix of moderns technologies from both worlds, Windows and
UNIX. Only QNX has not support of OSX..yet :). Of cause it is expensive, but
all we know that quality system will never be cheap. By the way, Linux
solutions are very chip only on initial stage of project ;). So, every thing
has its own (not zero) price..
PS. Please don't consider this post as Mac advertisement. It is just my own
analysis of instrumental systems. Nobody from Apple gives me the money :)..
yet :-))
_______________________________________________
General
http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post41746
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Adam Mallory
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
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Adam Mallory
11/11/2009 2:44 PM
post41796
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Re: OSX Version of Momentics
We should make some placards and do a peaceful demonstration outside of the
office ;)
-Adam
On 11/11/09 2:10 PM, "Kevin Stallard" <community-noreply@qnx.com> wrote:
> A man who doesn't even speak my language natively but can better articulate
> my thoughts on the subject better than I can.
>
> Thank you Michael, my thoughts exactly.
>
> Kevin
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Kolesov [mailto:community-noreply@qnx.com]
> Sent: November 11, 2009 00:47
> To: general-ide
> Subject: Re: OSX Version of Momentics
>
> Here I would like to explain, why this topic is interesting.
> My own opinion: Development for UNIX Target (i.e. QNX) is mostly
> comfortable under UNIX Host (i.e. Linux, other).
>
> Windows Host has commercial GUI which give the power of Graphics apps like
> IDE. Under Windows Host IDE looks nicer and works faster than under Linux.
> Support of world standard MS Office applications and other Windows thing...
> But it has no native UNIX environment. All of these Cygwin, MinGW...is very
> far from real UNIX (with respect to authors of that applications).
>
> From another hand, Linux has the great and modern UNIX environment with all
> that features.. But it has no commercial level GUI. Yes Linux GUI presents,
> works but it is so poor in comparing with Win or Mac. In other words, I
> don't want to spend my weekends to setup KDE 4 features like internalization
> as example..So if you have tried that, you understand me ..I hope :).
> OpenOffice compatibility is a big question too.
>
> I don't consider Neutrino. Try to create presentation under that OS and you
> will understand why it is not in the list. Every system should take its
> place..
>
> So, after many years of preparing my own work station place I see that OS X
> is very interesting candidate. At short. Native UNIX, commercial GUI,
> Microsoft Office for Mac, GCC as base compiler. It's simple to setup. As you
> see OS X is real mix of moderns technologies from both worlds, Windows and
> UNIX. Only QNX has not support of OSX..yet :). Of cause it is expensive, but
> all we know that quality system will never be cheap. By the way, Linux
> solutions are very chip only on initial stage of project ;). So, every thing
> has its own (not zero) price..
>
> PS. Please don't consider this post as Mac advertisement. It is just my own
> analysis of instrumental systems. Nobody from Apple gives me the money :)..
> yet :-))
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> General
> http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post41746
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> General
> http://community.qnx.com/sf/go/post41791
>
--
Adam Mallory (amallory@qnx.com)
Manager, Support Services Phone: +1.613.614.6612
QNX Software Systems Fax: +1.613.591.3579
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